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Boo! All I wanted to do for this haunted house extravaganza was hook up Alex Da Corte with Kevin Williamson. (Oh, and maybe ask Chloe Sevigny to dress up like a witch.) Kevin is the writer of Scream and the creator of Dawson’s Creek. He knows being a teen inside-out and loves horror like vampires love hot blood. Obvs, horror and teens have been a hot couple forever, because horror gives you a way to express the demonic weirdness of adolescence when death gets real and your sexuality suddenly turns wild as a werewolf. Alex is a magician. When he dresses up as Michael Myers from Halloween or plays a melancholic version of Frankenstein’s monster, he transforms these bogeymen into strange and heartbreaking creatures. Horror can be so beautiful it hurts. I asked him why he loves Kevin’s work so much, and he texted back: “He showed me a way out.” Here, they talk about VCRs, masks, and the stuff that “changes your brain forever”. Sink your fangs into it, kids. – Charlie Fox

Alex Da Corte: What is your favorite scary movie?

Kevin Williamson: Halloween.

ADC: (laughs) I concur. I grew up in the suburbs, in Haddonfield, New Jersey. (Halloween is set in the fictional town of Haddonfield, Illinois.)

KW: Wow.

ADC: Halloween was a fascination for me from a young age. We would play this game where my tallest, oldest cousin would dress up like Michael and hide in one of the homes in the neighborhood and all the parents would agree to leave their doors unlocked and go to bed early and probably drink some wine in their bedrooms while we would play this game where we tried to survive by not being found by Michael Myers – a reverse manhunt.

KW: Sounds fun.

ADC: But completely terrifying. Halloween was interesting, because it implicated the viewer (as) the bad guy by putting them in the perspective of the killer. In Scream, (you) implied that the danger was beyond the camera’s lens by saying ‘the movies made me do it’. It was a strategy John Carpenter had used, but you made it contemporary. As a young person in the 90s, how did you know that that complicity could or should be (achieved) by making a film that was so self-aware?

KW: I don’t feel like I came up with anything; I just spoke to it. I think it was some-thing in the universe, the zeitgeist; it was all sort of floating around us and I got very, very lucky that I wrote a horror film script which actually spoke to it. This was some-thing I knew I was going to do my whole life from an early age, when I consumed horror films and thrillers because I loved the adrenaline rush of the scare. I wanted to write a horror movie that I would want to see, that was written for someone like me, because I knew all of the rules. I knew as one character showed up that they were going to die soon. In Halloween the two girls who were sexualized, or having sex, died, and Jamie Lee Curtis survived the night because she was the A-student; she was the one with all the books in her hands. It was a big deal knowing those rules and that they existed in every other horror film too.

ADC: What were the movies were you into at that moment?

KW: Every movie. I grew up in the age of the VCR. Before that, the home video rental didn’t exist. I grew up in the age when you could watch a movie ten times. Home video allowed us to know movies better than anyone had been able to before.

ADC: It occurs to me now that Scream is a portrait of these consumerist teenagers. It is so indebted to Blockbuster video and the VCR, and the subversion of popular culture (at that time).

KW: It was an era when we could consume everything. After the Reagan years, which were such an indulgent time, that indulgence led us to consume. We as a people were consumers of movies, which led to new technologies. What I love about Scream is that we were able to utilize the cellphone. Not a lot of teenagers had cellphones back when that movie was written. It was such a unique thing at the time and such a fresh way of showing teenagers communicating through the phone.

ADC: And that was a driving force for the plot – its rarity. There was a line in the film like, ‘What are you doing with a cellphone, why do you even have a cellphone?!’

KW: Yeah, you watch it now and she calls 91 I on her computer. On the internet. No one would have thought to do that, and now you watch it and laugh.

ADC: For my generation, Scream is firmly part of the queer canon and celebrated as such in terms of its camp, its saturated, quasi-cartoonish cinematography and its distinctive, self-aware dialogue, but also the relationship between Billy and Stu.

KW: Well, it’ll be that Leopold and Loeb ending.

ADC: Like Tom Kalin and Hilton Als’ script for Swoon, or Gregg Araki‘s The Living End.

KW: I was always fascinated by the Leopold and Loeb murder case (the two wealthy students’ killing of a 14-year old boy in 1924 was dubbed the “crime of the century” by the press). I (had written) half of the movie and the killer was one hundred percent Billy (Skeet Ulrich), but then I realized one person couldn’t have done this. It had to have been two. When I stumbled on that idea, the entire movie took another shape. One person could not have pulled off the first kill. A lot of people skip over that if you’re just watching a horror movie – horror movies rarely stick to reality – but I thought the smart watchers are going to pick up on that right away.

ADC: Yeah.

KW: No one did, but I thought, ‘I have to have an answer for that later.’

ADC: Because you introduce this creeper guy (Billy) in the next scene; you immediately introduce the bad guy.

KW: Which is structure 101. I wanted to point the finger directly at him.

ADC: Yes.

KW: And then I wanted to dismiss him because he gets arrested and the one phone call came when he was arrested so he couldn’t have done it. But then of course you start to suspect him again, and then I kill him. It was one of those tricks where I went, Look over here, don’t look over there, and the whole thing becomes about Matt (Lillard, who played Stu). I designed it that way, similar to the way John Carpenter designed his shots, where he would do suggestive tracking and use the foreground as the distractor. The use of foregrounds was so beautiful because he shot on anamorphic and he would have the whole left side of the screen open – you thought someone would step forward into it, but they never did. It created that displacement.

ADC: I think that this kind of ‘shadow of a doubt’ thing which was so successfully employed in Scream and many other thrillers before it has faded away, and the horror genre has had to adopt new ways to thrill and create unease. There is a new kind of compression today.

KW: Compression, yes … We are in a different place in horror today than we were before. John Carpenter did what he did so well and there were a lot of imitators that came after (Halloween), things like Friday the 13th. The slasher films that came afterwards were fun, but they were a different type of thrill. And then we get into the ghost movies like The Ring and The Grudge.

ADC: The Others…

KW: I thought that was a lovely film. And then came the docu-horrors, like Blair Witch and Paranormal Activity.

ADC: There is this really great artwork by Douglas Gordon; it’s this British guy with a blonde wig on and it’s called “Self Portrait” as Kurt Cobain as Andy Warhol, as Myra Hindley, as Marilyn Monroe”. I would add Drew Barrymore from Scream if I were to ever remake this work. That led me to think how the image of Drew (in the film) has developed into this specific icon, like Warhol and Marilyn Monroe. Can you speak to how the image developed as a screenwriter? (Because) for you, for a time, there was no image. There was no Ghostface mask, no blonde wig or white sweater.

KW: Well, I did picture it, but it’s never exactly what you picture it to be, because it’s a communal effort. It takes a village to make a film. And I think if you’re reading the script you are reading the mask more like a Halloween Michael Myers mask, which is kind of faceless. And then we stumbled upon that mask accidentally at a location scout – it was in someone’s garage, and Wes really liked it. At the time it was just a dime-store mask.

ADC: I had that mask! I remember my freshman year in high school in ‘94, I bought that Fun World mask. I remember being so excited because I didn’t have to go out again and buy the mask for Halloween once Scream came out. I had it in my basement.

KW: (laughs) You had one of the originals!

ADC: There is a long history of films in which telephones are the main ‘antagonists’, and I guess you could lump parts of Halloween into this history. There is Fassbinder’s The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, Mario Bava’s Black Sabbath, which features a segment called ‘The Telephone’, When a Stranger Calls, Scream and, more recently, Black Mirror. But I also wonder, given the time that you wrote it, why the telephone was considered to be the main ‘antagonists’, and again, if that related to a general attitude towards the new technology? If you saw this weird alien form of energy, the cellphone, coming into the culture like the monolith in 2001?

KW: I never really saw it that way – it was much simpler than that. I always wanted them to be outside of the house. For me, it was more a matter of necessity for the storyline. I wanted to use divisive technology and I wanted there to be a phone call between the killer and the victim. It was inspired by When a Stranger Calls, which I believe is the movie she has in her hands in that opening scene.

ADC: Oh my God, really?

KW: I could be wrong, but it was in one of the takes. She might have had the other one too, Children of the Corn. We did a couple of takes. I wanted to do that really long Janet Leigh scene and we always said we wanted to get the biggest star for the opening scene. We wanted that conversation on the phone that was slightly too long, so you really think she is going to survive.

ADC: I was in high school in detention in the art room and everyone was talking about Scream, the new Drew Barrymore move. When I finally saw it in the theatre it was real; it was real horror and my expectations were shattered. It changed my brain forever.

KW: It really put the weight on Neve Campbell, the very next actress you saw in the film. It took a really long time to find the right actress to cast for that role, because she had to carry the weight of the whole movie on her shoulders, and we were worried there might be some disappointment, like, ‘Oh God, Drew’s dead, no one is going to watch the rest of the movie!’

ADC: There is so much risk there, it’s real auteur filmmaking. Neve is one of the many strong female leads that you have written for and I wondered whether you had a cool mom or sister or female role models in your life? You write roles for women in such an awesome way.

KW: Well, for me, growing up gay in a small town, I always struggled with identity. I believed I had to be masculine and not show any sensitivity or attraction to men because you would be considered feminine or a girl. I always thought that I was straddling a fence when I was hiding my sexuality, so when I finally could let it out it just kept coming out in so many different ways and in so many different characters. A lot of times when I was writing Dawson’s Creek people would be like, ‘Oh, all of your characters sound like pop psychologists’ and I would say, ‘Go back and read the script with a southern accent and tell me if that’s still the same.’ (Williamson grew up in North Carolina and Texas.) A good southern drawl changes everything.

ADC: That a thing I love about your work. You often talk about your home and the place you grew up as really formative for you, and despite the fact that you live in LA you have a clear sense of the manners by which a marginalised queer person in the south, or just a person who understands family in that king of setting, has to navigate the world. Your characters embody that, which is really beautiful. Did you ever watch (80s murder mystery comedy) Clue? Were you a fan of that when you were young?

KW: Clue? I loved it -with Madeline Kahn, of course. (laughs)

ADC: I love Clue, I just love it. It’s another film that could be considered camp – it’s beloved-by queer people, it’s beloved by everybody. There is a kind of horror and a kind of comedy folded into it. I found out that the novelisation of the movie was written by this screenwriter, Michael MCdowell, who wrote a series of cool pulp homoerotic thrillers in the 80s under the name Nathan Aldyne.

KW: Oh really?

ADC: He eventually wrote the screenplay for Beetlejuice and The Nightmare Before Christmas for Tim Burton. You speaking about the formal conceit of the killer outside the house brings me to McDowell and his depictions of views from the periphery. This is what his characters like Beetlejuice and Jack Skellington did, it and beautifully anticipated Scream’s queering of the domestic and the pathology of the outsider coming in, whether through destruction of assimilation. I see it in a 90s/early 00s line with films like Swoon, The Living End, Safe, Funny Games, and Elephant.

KW: In (Mike Nichols’ psychodrama) Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf, there is nothing more horrific than watching that husband and wife rip each other apart – they do it with words but they also just completely stab each other to death and kill the two guests they invite over for drinks. It’s a slaughterhouse, and it’s all done with words and it’s gorgeous.

ADC: Totally. Fear eats the soul. I had read somewhere that when you wrote Scream you were thinking about an open window, and I always think about the Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode called ‘An Unlocked Window’ where there’s this nurse caretaking for an elderly guy and she hears on the radio that someone escaped from the jail and she’s just thinking, over and over in her head, ‘Did I leave this window unlocked?’ Fear can develop into its own monster – that open space of the unlocked window, or of Carpenter’s tracking shots.

KW: Well, that actually happened to me. I was watching a Primetime 20/20-type show about (Gainsville Ripper) Danny Rolling and I thought that was such a creepy serial killer; (he was this guy) in Florida who killed all these people. I was housesitting for my friend (at the time). There was an open window in the house and I had been there for two nights and I was like, How long has that window been open? Did I not close that? Does he always leave that window open? Suddenly I had noticed it for the first time. Of course I ended up calling my friend, and walked through the house with a knife checking behind every door, while he was on the phone laughing at me. •